Tripurari Swami Remembers Srila Prabhupada

Prabhupada Memories

Interview 01

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Tripurari Swami: Sometime in 1972 I got to go on one of Prabhupada’s famous morning walks. At that time I had become a little bit known for distributing his books. Someone said, “Prabhupada, Tripurari das is here and he’s distributing books.” Prabhupada turned to me and opened his eyes quite wide and quoted the verse from Bhagavad-gita, “No one will ever be more dear to Me than one who preaches the message of Bhagavad-gita.” He encouraged me along those lines, and by his grace, I was already enthusiastic. His words further catapulted me into the service that I did for a long time in his manifest presence, namely distributing his literature and inspiring others to do so. On morning walks Srila Prabhupada used to ask me, “So, Tripurari Maharaj, what are they saying?” That was his standard kind of question to me, because he knew I was always in the field preaching to people, distributing literature and so forth. He knew that I would need arguments to counteract the people’s arguments, and he was curious what their arguments were. Each time Prabhupada asked me I would give one or two of their arguments, and Prabhupada would defeat it in an enlightening way. Once in Mayapur I told Prabhupada, “They’re saying that we should use our intelligence to understand absolute knowledge and the truth of life and we should apply ourselves with all of our God-given reasoning,” as if to say Krishna consciousness was deviating from reasoning. It does go beyond reasoning, but it picks up where reasoning leaves off. Prabhupada immediately replied, “Okay, use your intelligence. Read and study the Bhagavad-gita.” He usually responded in short bursts like that. One time in Vrindavan he asked me what they were saying. I said, “Prabhupada, they’re saying that we’re parasites; that we are simply leeching off the society without contributing anything.” He said, “So stop giving.” Everyone was silent. He said, “But you can’t.” That’s all he said, but it was profound. I appreciated the point that, “You say we’re only parasites. Then we say ‘Stop giving,’” because in fact someone else is supplying us. This sankirtan movement is going on not because you’re supporting us, but you are benefited by participating. The support is coming from above. Krishna’s in the background supplying and supporting. During 1974 I traveled as a brahmachari, organizing book distribution and preaching throughout America. Then I came to Mayapur, but I had no GBC because the fellow who was my GBC in Los Angeles had left. The GBC called me in and asked me, “Who is your GBC?” I thought, “I don’t know, I don’t have a GBC.” I didn’t really understand what the GBC was. I didn’t realize that you had to have one. At any rate, after their meetings the GBC would read their resolutions to Prabhupada, and he would say, “Yes, this one is all right. Adjust that one. That one is not good.” They brought up my name, and Prabhupada said, “What has Tripurari done?” With a quiver in their voice they said, “Well, Prabhupada, he doesn’t have any GBC, and he’s traveling around and raising so much—” Prabhu- pada cut them off and said, “He’s distributing my books, he doesn’t need a GBC.” That was the end of the story. Three GBCs came to me afterwards and apologized. In that way, in my mind and in the minds of a number of leading men, I came directly under Prabhupada. Therefore they didn’t really complain when I forced my way into the morning walks, because at the time I was Prabhupada’s main instrument for distributing books. Prabhupada gave me encouraging words about preaching. In 1977, when he had fallen ill and the festival was ending in Mayapur, he decided not to go to Vrindavan. I went to him with Panchadravida Maharaj and said, “Prabhupada, I’m not interested in going to Vrindavan for the rest of the festival.” He said, “Why not?” I said, “Because you are the festival. Without you, there is no meaning to Vrindavan and the festival there. I would like to stay here with you.” I felt that he deeply appreciated my sentiment, but he said, “No, you are a preacher. You should go.” Shortly thereafter many of us were sitting with Prabhupada when Ramesvara gave him a report that to date sixty-four million books in many different languages had been distributed. Prabhupada heard the report and said to me, “This sixty-four million is all your credit.” I thought, “Prabhupada, this is all your credit. You are so encouraging to us.” I got some deep realizations when Prabhupada opened the Krishna-Balaram temple in Vrindavan. We had all worked hard selling books and directly raising money to build that temple. It was a great struggle for Prabhupada, and when I saw him offering arati to Krishna-Balaram, I was deeply touched. The temple was wonderful, and Prabhupada had wanted it so much. Now it was done, and somehow we’d been instruments in it. Watching him offer the arati to Krishna and Balaram was glorious. Visakha, the photographer, was behind me, and there was quite a push and a shove to get close to Prabhupada to witness the first arati. She said to me, “Maharaj, I want to photograph this for preaching.” Preaching was so important that she wanted me to let her in front. I thought, “The hell with preaching. I’m not moving from here. I’m going to watch Srila Prabhupada offering arati to Krishna and Balaram.” Anyway, I got so much inspiration at that time. Hamsadutta was standing next to me, and tears were flowing from his eyes. I was also choked up and crying. Later I went to Prabhupada, and his secretary didn’t want to let me in, but I got in anyway. I said, “Prabhupada, I think I’d like to take sannyas.” But I was submissive. I was known as an independent, rebellious maverick, but I have both sides, and before Prabhupada I was submissive. I was afraid to ask anything of him. I tried to say, “If you don’t want me to take sannyas, then I don’t want to. But maybe you’ll want it. I want it only because that kind of commitment will draw me closer to you.” I tried to explain all this to Prabhupada when he asked me, “Why you should take?” Prabhupada played with me. He knew me, but he said, “So, you are brahmachari?” I said, “Prabhupada, it’s me, Tripurari.” I had a wife when I joined, but she had left. He said, “Oh, you are a vanaprastha?” Then he said, “What if you give up sannyas after you take it?” I said, “Prabhupada, I would never do that.” I thought, “Out of love I want to do this for you.” He said, “Others have said that ‘I will never give it up,’ and they have gone.” I thought, “Well, maybe he doesn’t want me to do it. Gosh, I don’t want to force my idea on him. This is not bhakti; bhakti is to take his idea and do his bidding. Not to impose my idea.” I said, “I want to be as closely connected with you as possible. I want all three initiations.” Then I backed off, I said, “Anyway, Prabhupada, I don’t want to push it.” He didn’t say “no” and he didn’t say “yes.” He was amused by it. I went to every GBC member there and told them, “I’m thinking of taking sannyas.” They had just passed a rule that you couldn’t do that, but they had also just been told that “Tripurari doesn’t need a GBC.” None of them opposed me except Brahmananda. Maybe I took it that the majority rules. When Tamal Krishna Maharaj heard that I was talking about taking sannyas, he told me, “Yes, you should do it immediately. Let’s go to Prabhupada,” and he dragged me back to Srila Prabhupada. He said, “Prabhupada, Tripurari wants to take sannyas, and all of us think it’s a wonderful idea.” Prabhupada said, “Tomorrow he will take sannyas.” In a sense, my sannyas was in violation of the GBC resolution. Prabhupada was present when Satsvarupa Maharaj performed a fire sacrifice for my sannyas initiation in the courtyard of the Krishna-Balaram temple. Afterwards, in Prabhupada’s quarters, Prabhupada gave me the mantras, the danda and some instructions to preach. I asked him a question about sickness, because many of the devotees in my party were getting worn out and sick. A notion was going around that, because we were having intimate exchanges with many secular people with bad habits in an overtly non-devotional context, maybe we were taking some karma from the people. We were dressed in secular clothing, and in the context of preaching we would meet people on the street, shake their hands or pat them on the back, and they’d blow smoke in our faces. Prabhupada answered strongly. He said, “By performing sankirtan you can never become infected by anything. The infection that others have will be counteracted, but you cannot become implicated.” This is a principle of accepting service. Their reactions shouldn’t show up on us, but instead they should become purified of those reactions. Once Gopavrindapal wanted to ask Prabhupada about organizing book distribution in a systematic way and about training the devotees to conduct themselves in a particular way. Gopavrindapal and I were in Vrindavan and he was pushing me, “Let’s go and see Prabhupada and talk to him about it.” I was a little reluctant. One day I heard that Prabhupada was going to cook, so I decided, “I’m going to go there, invited or not, to witness Prabhupada cooking.” I shaved up, got clean, and went in. Prabhupada was taking massage and said to me, “Why have you come? Do you have some questions?” I said, “Prabhupada, I heard that you were going to cook. I wanted to come and watch or help you cook.” I thought that would be a very enlivening experience. He said, “No, I am not cooking. I am a sannyasi,” and he preached to me about what it meant to be a sannyasi, to be independent and so forth. He said, “I could live in the forest and be independent of all of this. They are making nice arrangements, and I’m accepting it.” Gopavrindapal came in and brought up his question, and, while Prabhupada very much appreciated the devotees’ sincerity and concern for making preaching nice, he said, “It is a little artificial.” Then Gopavrindapal mentioned how Tamal Krishna Maharaj had organized a quota system, i.e. that a certain amount of books should be sold or a certain amount of money collected. Prabhupada said, “That is Tamal Krishna Maharaj’s concoction.” He said that there may be some place for that to inspire the devotees, but Prabhupada’s main point was that preaching was a spontaneous affair. Prabhupada used me as an example. He said, “Just like our Tripurari Maharaj. Within his heart Krishna’s giving him many things to say. He’s saying them, and books are selling. So from within their heart each devotee will get inspiration. In this way Krishna consciousness will spread.” That’s the way Prabhupada spread Krishna consciousness. He went in the direction that he saw Krishna manifesting. If devotees were chanting sincerely and practicing, something Krishna conscious must be coming. When a disciple was inspired and had an idea to do something, he would often say “Yes, do it,” and the disciple would start a temple or whatever. It’s not that it was planned out and Prabhupada had a notebook that he was referring to. Krishna was leading and sometimes even leading in the hearts of his disciples. Prabhupada was attentive to that. A mahabhagavata sees Krishna everywhere and in everything. Beginning devotees think, “I’m a devotee, everyone else is a demon.” The higher devotee thinks, “I’m a demon, everyone else is a devotee.” Prabhupada never gave me any kind of advice or instruction on what to say to sell his books. Once I told Prabhupada, “The devotees are asking me how to sell the books. What is the technique?” He said, “What do you tell them?” I said, “Prabhupada, I tell them that you have to strictly follow all of the principles and read and chant.” He said, “Yes, this is our only technique.” In other words, preaching is really the overflow of the culture. When your culture overflows, you feel inspired and have something to say. Then you preach effectively. I think Prabhupada used me in his service for preaching and book distribution from internal inspiration, from wanting to please him. Prabhupada taught us about Krishna-lila when we ventured a question about rasa-tattva. More often than not, he would answer to the effect of, “Why don’t you go there and find out? What can I say about that? What will you know by my speaking about it? What can you grasp intellectually? This shouldn’t be talked about.” Of course, it is in his books, and he does talk about it within certain parameters. But one will really know it by going there, by service and sacrifice. We hope that devotees and newcomers will be inspired by that, as well by serving his message. Then one can know him. Prabhupada is a big subject. Some knew him as “Swamiji,” and when he said, “Now there will be initiations,” some didn’t want to know him any further. Gradually he explained his mission, and some people stayed on while others decided, “That’s enough for me.” We should try to go the limit. He personally exemplified unlimited service and sacrifice in relation to Siddhanta Sarasvati Thakur. He took the suggestion of his guru as an order. Prabhupada said, “My Guru Maharaj ordered me, ‘If you ever get money, print books.’” Actually his Guru Maharaj suggested it to him at Radha Kunda, but Prabhupada took it as an order. In his commentary on verse 2.41 from Bhagavad-gita, Pra- bhupada writes how one-mindedness, fixed intelligence, is required for spiritual life. He quotes Srila Vishvanath Chakravarti Thakur’s prayer to the spiritual master, yasyaprasada bhagavata prasado yasaprasadan na gatih kuto ’pi. Prabhupada’s idea of one-mindedness was service to the order of the guru. His guru’s order was a suggestion, but he took it as an order and as his life and soul. So he’s very extreme on this point, and if we can follow that example of faith in the guru, then I think we can know Prabhupada as he is. In Los Angeles we couldn’t go to the airport to distribute literature dressed in devotional attire, so we reasoned that we should put on secular clothing and go in a covert way. The first time we went, the devotees with me were told to cease and desist or be arrested, but I managed to get through the day without being apprehended. At the time I thought, “Oh, what a wonderful facility this is. By standing in one place you can send Prabhupada’s litera- ture all over the world.” I prayed to Prabhupada that we could distribute his books widely, and my prayer came true. Even unwillingly, many airports facilitated our distribution. Then a debate started. Kirtanananda Swami was with Prabhupada in India, and he complained, “Many devotees are wearing secular clothing.” He thought that it was a compromise of our principles. Prabhupada was quite concerned. We responded, “It’s not that we’re regressing. We have no interest whatsoever in wearing these clothes.” I would never go before Prabhupada with secular clothing on, but for the service of Krishna, to increase book distribution, we accepted it. Prabhupada could perceive our mood through our letter, and he sanctioned it. Ultimately he found precedents for this principle based on scripture. For example in Caitanya-caritamrta, Prataparudra Maharaj changed from secular to devotional dress in order to get the association of Mahaprabhu. When I was first recommended for sannyas, Prabhupada wrote, “Actually he doesn’t need to take sannyas. He is already doing more than any sannyasi.” (laughs.) That made many sannyasis wonder “What is he doing?” They asked me, “How are you pleasing Prabhupada by selling books?” But that statement was just Prabhupada’s generous way of encouraging me. He also wrote, “Anyway, it is against the etiquette for a sannyasi to wear secular clothing as Tripurari must sometimes do so.” But later he explained that the real principle is for the sannyasis to do the needful for preaching. So, there was a controversy about that, and Prabhupada sided with the dynamic idea of making adjustments for preaching, rather than sticking to the form. He was not a man of form but a man of substance. Not a man, but a great devotee. Akinchana Krishnadas Babaji came to see Prabhupada in Vrindavan when I was there, a month or so before Prabhupada departed. Prabhupada said, “Please forgive me for all my offenses. Now the war is over. Please try to help them.” Akinchana Krishnadas Babaji was quick to say, “No, no, you have not offended anyone. With all that you have done in the name of Guru Maharaj in preaching, you cannot make offense.” It was very charming, very endearing. Prabhupada would speak harshly about his God-brothers, and you have to understand why and for what reason; circumstance, time, and some of his God-brothers were inimical. In Prabhupada’s estimation, one of his God-brothers was inimical at one time, but after that God-brother departed, his Vyasa-puja was being celebrated and Prabhupada sent me with some other sannyasis to go and observe it. I had thought that Prabhupada didn’t like the fellow, but such feelings don’t run very deep. What runs deep in the heart of Prabhupada or any param Vaishnava is love; what to speak of love for the people in general, love for the devotees and devotees of the same banner, God-brothers, certainly. We should understand this because we have our own experience now with differences amongst God-brothers. They speak strongly about one another. But if they carry on the mission nicely, we also must have some deep appreciation. And we must have a tear for those who are not carrying it on. We’re not against them. I think that Prabhupada very much demonstrated this, and if we didn’t see it, we didn’t see Prabhupada. As much as he criticized some of them, he loved them deeply, and it came out at different times. He was not a politician, patronizing them, saying something nice about this one or that one. When Prabhupada was in Seattle and he got telegram of the disappearance of Keshava Maharaj from the world, he glorified Keshava Maharaj with a tear in his eye. He had deep feelings for him, deep love. In terms of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, there was no more-widespread campaign than Srila Prabhupada’s. He was practically on every continent, conducting it like a great general but in an unassuming, humble way. Upon arriving in America he wrote a prayer and signed it, “the most insignificant beggar.” It always amazed me. Usually a humble person gets nowhere. Usually you have to get out there and assert yourself. But Prabhupada was humble in that he was not at all self-asserting but always asserting on behalf of his Guru Maharaj and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. His was a dynamic kind of humility, the kind that would allow him to sit on the elevated seat and to chastise and give or- ders. But he was truly humble to the order of his spiritual master, humble to the call of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

To view the entire unedited video go to Memories 13 - Jadurani dd, Tripurari Swami, Bhagavata

The full Prabhupada Memories Series can be viewed here and also at www.prabhupadamemories.com

Following Srila Prabhupada

Interview DVD 05

Tripurari Swami: There was a little bit of a push and a shove to get near his company, but I was determined to stand in that spot. I didn’t want to fall asleep during his classes, so that’s one of the reasons I stood. I used to meditate on his hands playing the kartals, and I would sing right into his right ear. On one occasion, I was chanting and I was thinking to myself that “Really I don’t know the significance of what I’m chanting, but I know that it gives a lot of pleasure to Prabhupada. So let me with that spirit chant selflessly just for his pleasure, no other motive.” Traditionally after the class there would be a short kirtan, and so there would generally be some vying for the microphone and who was going to lead. I remember on one such occasion Sudama prevailed, Sudama Maharaj, to lead the kirtan. But just as he began to lead, Prabhupada stopped him and turned to me, “Let this boy lead.” So I was very much moved by that, how he had felt my sentiment and my thoughts and my heart with regard to the chanting, and he taught me what was the right spirit behind the chanting, that it should be chanted only for the pleasure obviously of God and guru.

Interview DVD 07

Tripurari Swami: The Chicago O’Hare Airport was a place where we distributed a lot of books, and we were there day in and day out. And some of the people who were also there day in and day out, the employees, they didn’t appreciate our presence there; and some of them were antagonistic even, and some of them on occasion caused bodily harm to some of the devotees who were distributing Prabhupada’s books. In retrospect, I can understand why they were agitated and why we irked them to the extent that we did; but they, of course, had no access to our motivation and what we were really about. In my mind, it was an awkward place for Prabhupada to be coming. There were so many books that had been distributed there and it was auspicious in that regard but, in ISKCON terminology, there were demons there also. So Prabhupada got off the plane and I’m thinking, “I’ve got to protect Prabhupada. Who knows? One of these crazy guys here could run up and throw something at him,” or who knows what because they had done things like that to his disciples. So I was standing next to Prabhupada and protecting him from the crowd in my mind. We were walking towards the door to go out onto the curb and the access funneled down, and to go through the door only one person could go through. Here I was preoccupied with this idea that I’m going to protect Prabhupada and get him through the door safely, and Prabhupada just went like this with his left arm when I was standing on his left side. The next thing I could remember, I was at the back of the crowd, everybody was in front of me, and Prabhupada was in the car and the devotees were ushering him off to the temple. It was very mystical to me because I thought, “Oh, here I was thinking I’m protecting the spiritual master, and he’s showing ‘I’m protected by Krishna’ and ‘I could protect you also.’” Lord Jagannatha is the Lord of the Universe, that is what His name means. Rathayatra is about dragging Him off His throne. Sometimes the ropes that pull the chariot are compared to the hearts of the gopis because He is being pulled by their affection and the affection of the inhabitants of Vrindavan from His lordly status in Dwaraka, where He appears four-handed and so forth, down to becoming accessible to the common people. And you can’t get any more common than cowherds, villagers, unsophisticated, uneducated people. So they’re dragging Him down off the throne and in doing so they are making Him accessible to the common people, and Jagannatha is becoming accessible during a Rathayatra. You can’t go in unless you are of a certain birth; and besides that, you can’t go and touch Him and serve Him directly. But during Rathayatra, anyone can serve Him. Even ordinary people will sometimes be brought up onto the cart and allowed to embrace Balarama or Jagannatha. So it is very much the case that Prabhupada, as an inhabitant of Vrindavan, was bringing the Lord of the Universe out beyond the wildest expectations. Even the people of Jagannatha Puri, who acknowledge this is His day to come out and give association to the people, couldn’t imagine that He would appear on the other side of the ocean giving darshan to people who didn’t even know what it was about. As you can see in the film, so many people came, so many common people from all over San Francisco used to gather in those days. And just wondering, Prabhupada just wondering, “How this is all happening to me? Why this is happening?” So unassuming. “Why me? I don’t know, but I have to honor it, it’s happening.” That was his mood. His whole mood of the Western success was celebrating the mission of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur taking hold unexpectedly in this foreign land. Sridhar Maharaj once told us that Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur on more than one occasion expressed a desire to spend a decade in America preaching. This was before America became the prominent country in the world, before World War II when England was still the prominent country and, therefore, he sent emissary to England. But he had apparently a vision that America would become the most dominant country in the world, and he had a desire for going and spending 10 years to preach in America. After telling us that, Sridhar Maharaj said, “And through Swami Maharaj, your Prabhupada, he got 10 years plus 2. Twelve years I consider Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur lived in him.” What could be a greater tribute to how well one has served their guru than that? When Prabhupada would ring that bell, everyone would go wild. It was if it was a confirmation that we were doing the right thing by performing kirtan in Mayapur. Whenever Prabhupada would do something a little out of the ordinary – move, dance, express the ecstasy that we could feel that he was about – that kind of external confirmation of it would drive the devotees mad.

Interview DVD 08

Tripurari Swami: When the curtains opened up, I was right in front of the Krishna Balarama altar, and I was so filled with ananda just thinking of the triumph of Prabhupada and all that went into it. So thinking of that, tears were pouring out of my eyes and I just wanted to stand there and watch Prabhupada in his moment of glory and relish it. Visakha wanted to take a picture, and I was blocking the view. So she’s tapping me on the shoulder, which a lady wouldn’t normally do that in ISKCON, and I was a sannyasi at the time on top of it, a new sannyasi. I was hearing her, but I wasn’t listening. So she got to me and I stepped out of the way, and she took the very famous picture. It was a wonderful victory for Prabhupada, the opening of the Krishna Balarama temple, a great triumph over many obstacles. In all of the temples in India, the principal temples that Prabhupada opened – Mayapur, Vrindavan and Bombay – he struggled. In Mayapur, he struggled with his own godbrothers. In Bombay, of course, he struggled with the tenants and the municipality. And in Vrindavan, he struggled with the Goswamis. So all of them were a great victory. But I think Vrindavan was the greatest victory, and it was the homeland of Prabhupada. As he said, “My place of worship is Mayapur, my office is Bombay, and my home is Vrindavan.” So it was a great triumph, and we all felt it. From there he built a bridge across the whole ocean to the whole rest of the world, that people could easily walk over that and enter into Vrindavan. He gave life to the whole of Vrindavan actually, enthusiasm for Krishna-bhakti, even those who had opposed him in some way recognizing, “Yes, you are a hometown boy and you’ve made us famous all over the world, and you’ve brought Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission everywhere.” It was formally really recognized by the town of Vrindavan. I remember at that time there were six brahmana boys that were initiated from brahmana families in the Braj. It was a big thing for a brahmana boy to be initiated by Prabhupada and be in a movement where they would eat chapatis cooked by persons born in the West and so forth. It was a huge triumph for Vaisnavism over religion, experiential spiritual life over religion, Vaisnavism over brahmanism, one of the causes that Prabhupada championed his whole life.

Interview DVD 11

Tripurari Swami: Parading down Fifth Avenue with Lord Jagannatha was the fulfillment of really a life-long ambition. I was sitting with Prabhupada once in Mayapur and he turned to me and he said, “When I was a young boy, I wanted to perform Rathayatra. And so my father got me a Rathayatra cart.” And Prabhupada was looking at me like he was about a 6- or 8-year-old boy and he said, “Everybody thought it was just a play Rathayatra.” Then he touched me like this with his hand and he said, “But it was real. It was real.” He said, “I used to go to sleep in my bed with the ratha cart next to me. In the night, I would wake up and reach out to make sure that it was there.” He said, “In this way, from my childhood I was performing Rathayatra in a small way, and now I’m doing it in a big way all over the world.” His ambition as a young boy was to take the train from Calcutta to Puri so that he could go to the Rathayatra in Jagannatha Puri. What an ambition for a child – such a pure ambition on his part that Lord Jagannatha fulfilled it in such a grand style. I had taken sannyasa in 1975 so I was still a relatively new sannyasi and, of course, I was a young man, I was only 25 years old. Prabhupada was at his quarters on the 11th Floor and I was sitting with Prabhupada, and he said to me, “Tripurari Maharaj, have you seen the New York women?” I was a young sannyasi, and I didn’t know what to answer. Have I seen the New York women? So I hesitated to answer, and he just went on. He said, “They are so beautiful, so charming,” and he began to talk about the New York women. Then as he continued he said, “In this way, they are controlling all of the men in New York City. And because they are controlling all of the men, all of these buildings are going up and the whole city is manifesting,” and he went on like this describing the whole development of New York. And he said, “It is all Vishnu maya.” And it was so edifying for me because often the take on sannyasa in ISKCON was anti-women and women were to be avoided and something like that. But to see Prabhupada, the perfect sannyasi, meditating even on the beauty and the charm of the women and then be able to take it to that point that he did in perfect Krishna consciousness, “It is all Vishnu-maya,” he could meditate completely on the material nature, the material energy, and because of seeing it in relation to Krishna, he would never be in danger of being affected by the material nature. This is the real idea of sannyasa. So it was very enlivening to me to hear him say that. He wasn’t really trying to teach me the points, he was just being himself and just expressing himself. Of course, whenever he expressed himself, however poetically and beautifully through his motions and through his words, it was very profound and edifying.