Hridayananda Goswami Remembers Srila Prabhupada

Prabhupada Memories

Interview 01

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Hridayananda Goswami: Srila Prabhupada brought me to Krishna consciousness in 1969. I had seen the devotees on the street in Berkeley, andI’d seen the Hare Krishna festival in the Berkeley Hills. I’d given donations,bought magazines, taken prasadam, and so on, but it was when I heard Prabhupada give a lecture in the International House at the University of California atBerkeley that I really became fixed on Krishna consciousness. For a sociology/religion class I had to go and observe different religious performances and ceremonies. I had gone to see a so-called swami who seemed like he wasn’t saying anything practical or substantial but only telling peoplehow to relax. Just as Prabhupada said that he was reluctant to see his spiritualmaster because he had seen so many so-called sadhus, so in a little way there is some similarity. As soon as Prabhupada entered the auditorium, I could see that this person was very different—his gravity, his power, his demeanor. He came in practically like a military commander, not in the sense of a violent person but in thesense of his authority. I could see that here was a person who was filled with authority and yet serene at the same time. The program started, the devotees began to chant, and Prabhupada got off the vyasasana and began dancing and jumping in ecstasy. To see this holy person, so filled with authority, over 70 years old, dancing in ecstasy, was overwhelming. When I was initiated in Los Angeles, I got a little piece of paper with my name on it, “Hridayananda.” For some reason I thought that someone had left out the “a” and that my name was actually “Haridayananda.” When people said, “What’s your name?” I said, “Haridayananda”. It sounded like a perfectly good, Krishna conscious name. No one ever questioned me. No one ever said, “That doesn’t sound like a bonafide name.” For the first several months after I was initiated, I was Haridayananda. In fact, there’s an old Back to Godhead article by Haridayananda das Brahmachari. Anyway, I wrote Prabhupada a letter about a year after my initiation, and I signed it “Haridayananda.” Prabhupada wrote back saying, “Dear Hridayananda, please accept my blessings. By the way, your name is Hridayananda.” I thought, “How in the world would Prabhupada remember who I am?” I had no real importance within the structure of ISKCON, as I was just a young member. I was amazed that Prabhupada remembered who I was. Karandhar and I were in Prabhupada’s room in the early seventies. It was a beautiful afternoon, a breeze was blowing, the sun was setting and golden rays were shining on Prabhupada. It was a sublime atmosphere. Prabhupada began to talk about India at the turn of the century. He explained how people used to work, the relationships between the householders and their servants, and how people used to cook. He took us back to his early childhood when he was having Ratha-yatra and worshipping Radha-Govinda. Then he looked at us very strongly and said, “Whatever I am doing now I was doing then. Do you understand?” We were speechless. Prabhupada said, “Never was there a time when I did not know Krishna. Do you understand?” He said it in such a way that it was clearly the case. That was a very powerful experience. We brought Miss Mexico to see Srila Prabhupada. In those days we were young and brought any celebrity to Prabhupada. Miss Mexico spent her year doing events, smiling, saying a few nice words and getting her picture taken. She was more or less in that mood. She sat in front of Prabhupada and made her customary spiel, saying in Spanish that it was very nice being Miss Mexico and fluttering her eyelashes. I was translating. She said, “I am very glad to be here. I have enjoyed the program very much and I hope to come again sometime.” Prabhupada said to her, “Why do you want to come again?” He was not at all concerned with the glamour of it. He was very sober. She couldn’t really answer. No one asks questions like that to Miss Mexico. He asked her very seriously, “Why do you want to come? Have you read my books?” She said, “No.” He said, “Then why do you want to come? Why do you say you want to come again?” So she was caught without an answer, and at that point she stopped being Miss Mexico and just started being a soul. At the end of July in 1971, Prabhupada came to Gainesville, Florida. He sat on the vyasasana that we had made for him, gave a beautiful lecture, and then took questions. There was a young girl there, and in a somewhat challenging tone she said to Prabhupada, “I see that you have mostly young people here. Why is that?” Prabhupada immediately shot back, “Why do you have mostly young people in your university?” She was so caught off guard that she dropped her pencil. She stuttered and said, “Well, that’s the age for education.” He said, “Yes, therefore that is the age for Krishna consciousness.” A few days before I took sannyas, a reporter was interviewing Prabhupada in his quarters in L.A. This reporter knew something about Hinduism. He said, “Well, isn’t it old people that take sannyas in India? Why are you giving sannyas to young people?” Prabhupada shot back, “What does it mean to be old?” The man had no answer. Prabhupada said, “Old means about to die. Can you say that I am older than you? Can you say that you are not going to die before me?” He couldn’t answer that. Prabhupada said, “Therefore, we are giving them sannyas.” Often I would enter Prabhupada’s room in a serious mood, and he would sometimes joke with me. Once I went into his room with that serious mood, and he looked at me with mock seriousness, “Yes, what is your message?” Another time I was on a college preaching tour, and I went into his room in New York when he was finishing his breakfast. He was in a jolly mood. He said, “Oh! Hridayananda Maharaj, you are traveling and preaching. I am just here eating.” He was pleased with the college preaching tour, and we talked about it for a while. He gave me a little attention, so I was feeling very happy. “Prabhupada likes my program.” But the next day I went into Prabhupada’s room thinking, “Well here I am, the college preacher.” I sat in front of Prabhupada, and he didn’t speak to me. He was doing his business. But there was an innocent young brahmacharini there who was changing Prabhupada’s flower vases with devotion. Prabhupada was very pleased with her. He was smiling like a loving grandfather. He said, “Thank you very much. What is your name?” So that day Prabhupada didn’t have a word for me, but he was very pleased with the devotion of this young girl. I was a sannyasi, and she was just some innocent girl. But she’s the one that pleased Prabhupada, because I was thinking, “I am a sannyasi,” and she was an innocent girl serving with great devotion. I never forgot that lesson. A young sannyasi is in a precarious position. He has to be very serious about Krishna consciousness. So I was trying very hard to be a good sannyasi, to be Krishna conscious. Then I realized that I was not really Krishna conscious enough, that Prabhupada deserved to be served much better than I felt I was serving him. I was in that mood, a little unhappy, a few months after I had taken sannyas. I thought, “I better eat less.” So I was trying to eat very little for a few days. Every day in New Dwaraka Prabhupada would walk down the stairs on his way to his garden, stop by the little sannyas room, peek in the door, walk in, look around, walk out, and keep going. That was the signal, and I would immediately jump up, offer obeisances, and run after him. I was trying not to impose on Prabhupada, but every day he would come and get me in that way. So one day we were coming back from the garden, and near the stairway to his quarters, on top of a radiator, there was a paper plate with a big mound of leftover potato or rice prasadam. Prabhupada stopped, put his cane down, looked at it, turned to me, and said, “Eat that.” (so much for my austerities.) I immediately offered obeisances, took the plate, and ate the prasadam. I was in Prabhupada’s room once when Jadurani came in. Her health was not good, and she told Prabhupada that she wanted to fast. Prabhupada told her, “Don’t fast completely. It’s not good to fast completely. At least take fruit.” Prabhupada said that you should eat what you can digest. He told me, “If you eat what you like, it will be good for you.” My mother was never favorable to the Movement, but she was polite and respectful to me and always thinking, “How to get him out of this thing?” I told her to see Srila Prabhupada. When she sat down in front of Prabhupada she transformed. She became like a young girl. Prabhupada told her how fortunate she was to have a son who was a devotee of Krishna. She nodded in agreement. Ever since I had joined she was unfavorable, but in Prabhupada’s presence she was overwhelmed and gladly nodded in agreement. After a few minutes she went downstairs and for the first time she opened her purse and said, “Can I give you something for your Movement?” We were desperately trying to get the first Spanish Bhagavatam, which was being printed in America, to Caracas in time to give to Prabhupada while he was there. There were a few glitches, and the book was late. We were disappointed. Finally, by frantic negotiations with the printer, we arranged for the book to be rushed by air-freight to Caracas. It arrived the same morning Prabhupada was leaving. Some of the leaders in Venezuela were desperately trying to get it out of customs, but South America is not the easiest place to do such things. Meanwhile, Prabhupada went to the airport, and we checked him in. To my great dismay the book hadn’t come. Prabhupada went through the immigration check, passport check, and left for the “Passengers Only” waiting lounge. We paid our obeisances, and suddenly the book came. I became inspired to give this first Spanish Bhagavatam to Prabhupada. I went running through the airport. You can’t run through the police check in any country, and certainly not in a South American country. But I was inspired. Somehow Krishna arranged everything. I ran right past the passport check. No one said a word to me despite my shaved head and danda. I ran right past all the checkpoints where you have to show this and show that, and no one said a word to me. I ran right into the international waiting lounge, offered obeisances, and Prabhupada had me sit next to him. I gave him the Bhagavatam. Prabhupada was very pleased. He looked at it, and then he wanted to check if it was bonafide. He said, “Can you translate?” “Yes, Prabhupada,” I said. He said, “All right,” opened it to the preface and said, “Read this in English.” I read it in English and Prabhupada saw that it was correct. It was bona fide. He was very happy. Then they called him for his flight. He walked off holding the Bhagavatam. We were flying to Los Angeles to see Prabhupada and give him the first Portuguese Bhagavatam, but we arrived at the airport late. The flight had already boarded. We were determined, “How to get this Bhagavatam to Prabhupada?” The airline people said, “I am sorry, the flight is closed.” Mahavir grabbed the walkie-talkie from the lady at the counter and said, “Hold that flight.” They held the flight, and we ran on. When Prabhupada arrived the next morning in Los Angeles, we met him. I was eager to give him this Portuguese Bhagavatam because it pleased him so much. It would always please him to receive these books. I couldn’t wait until he went to his room. I handed him the Bhagavatam as he got off the vyasasana. Finally, when we went to his room, he looked at me and said, “This is your most important service: printing and distributing books.” When he said those words it went deep into my heart. It was a very important moment. I was the GBC of all of Latin American. We had so many projects going on and yet, when I would see Prabhupada, his first question would always be, “So, how is sankirtan? How many books are being distributed?”

To view the entire unedited video go to Memories 01 - Hridayananda Goswami, Hari Sauri, Atma Tattva

Interview 02

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Hridayananda Goswami: A GBC man had let his hair grow out a little bit. When he walked to Prabhupada’s room in Vrindavan, Prabhupada immediately said, “Oh, the hippie seeds are sprouting again.” Another time we were walking with Prabhupada in Waikiki, Hawaii. Gurukripa said, “Prabhupada, you won our hearts. Your personality is so attractive that we couldn’t help but love you.” Prabhupada smiled and said, “Yes, that was my trick.” Once, on Venice Beach, we had just finished our walk and returned to the parking lot, where Prabhupada led us in a foot-stamping exercise to get the sand off our shoes. Just then some huge dogs came. Brahmananda and other physically large devotees were there, but everyone was bewildered. No one knew what to do because these dogs were so big. Prabhupada laughed, stepped forward fearlessly and chased the dogs away with his cane. Prabhupada was fearless. He knew how to deal with every living being. Another time I was with Prabhupada in New Vrindavan in 1972 when he was on his mat, taking a massage outside. When the climate was nice he would take open-air massage every day. Somehow or other a few kittens were playing near Prabhupada, wrestling with each other and rolling around, and they actually rolled onto Prabhupada’s lap. I thought, “Oh my God, these embodiments of pollution have rolled onto Prabhupada’s lap.” (Laughs) But Prabhupada was very kind and affectionate and began to pet the little kittens. He looked up at me and said, “Look, even here there is love.” Then I understood that our original love for Krishna becomes perverted in the form of material desires and lust. When Prabhupada saw these little kittens affectionately embracing and rolling around, he could see their original love for Krishna. So he said, “Even here there is love.” The kittens were innocently lying in Prabhupada’s lap, and he was petting them when he made another statement that I think is important for any devotee that has responsibility, either as a so-called leader or as a mother or father. Prabhupada said, “If I put my head on your lap and you cut my throat, that is the greatest sin.” In other words, if we exploit or abuse the person who’s taken shelter of us, that is the greatest sin. One mataji asked Prabhupada if he was present in his pictures. Prabhupada said, “Yes, therefore my disciples commit so many offenses.”

To view the entire unedited video go to Memories 15 - The 1996 NYC and LA Reunions

Interview 03

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Hridayananda Goswami: When Prabhupada came to America from a foreign country, many times he would have a press conference and he would declare to the reporters, “These are American boys and girls. I have not imported them from India.” It was important for Prabhupada to show that the people of each country were accepting Krishna consciousness. Similarly, one time a GBC representative sent Prabhupada a big glossy picture of a new castle that had been rented in Geneva, Switzerland, and outside the castle there were about thirty devotees in a group photograph. Prabhupada wrote back and said, “It is very nice, but I have one question. Are these local devotees or have you brought them from somewhere else?” Prabhupada was concerned that local people understand Krishna consciousness. For example, when Africa was just being opened and Prabhupada went to Nairobi, he gave a special lecture in which he urged the people in a third world country not to follow the false example of so-called developed countries. He requested them to pursue development according to Krishna consciousness. So, in different countries Prabhupada presented something that was appropriate and meaningful to the people of that country. For example, in America, knowing that Americans would naturally be proud of having the most important country materially, Prabhupada simultaneously praised America and pointed out its flaw by saying, “You have so many achievements, but all these achievements are like zeroes. The fine roads, the buildings, the prosperity, they are material achievements but they’re also zeroes. If you put the One of Krishna in front of the zeroes, then these achievements become real achievements.” That was Srila Prabhupada’s preaching for America. When I was Prabhupada’s secretary in Mayapur in February 1976, just before the annual meeting, Prabhupada told me several jokes. One was about an Indian servant of a British lord who had to leave his service, and who convinced a friend to take over for him. The friend protested, “I don’t know English. How can I serve this British lord?” The servant said, “You only have to know three words: yes, no, and very good.” He said, “If you know that, that’s enough.” So the friend took the job and one time there was something missing. The British lord confronted this servant and said, “Did you take this object?” He said, “Yes.” So, “Will you give it back?” “No.” So, “I’m going to call the police!” “Very good.” Prabhupada had an individual relationship with each person, and what was appropriate for one person may not be for another, depending on the special relationship each had with Prabhupada. Once we were walking on Venice Beach, and Prabhupada was trying to bring an intelligent young Indian boy to the Krishna consciousness movement. The boy came from a good Hindu background, and as Prabhupada was speaking, the boy occasionally quoted some Sanskrit from the Bhagavad-gita and Prabhupada praised and encouraged him, “Oh, that’s very nice. You know that verse, very good.” I thought, “This boy is getting so much mercy from Prabhupada by quoting Gita verses. I know Gita verses. I want to get some of this mercy myself.” Of course, this boy was an outsider that Prabhupada was trying to cultivate. I was supposed to be Prabhupada’s trusted son. But, as we were driving back, Prabhupada said something, and I said, “Oh, yes, Prabhupada, that reminds me of the Bhagavadgita verse . . .”, and I quoted the Sanskrit. Prabhupada turned around, gave me a look and said, “There are so many verses.” That’s the last time I ever tried that one. On Vyasa-puja day in 1972 in New Vrindavan, we had a ceremony in a special pavilion, and the devotees had cooked a great feast and a very large cake for Srila Prabhupada. Somehow, word got around that the feast and the cake were mahaprasadam that Prabhupada had tasted it, and there was a devotional feeding frenzy. The devotees were mad after mahaprasadam on Prabhupada’s Vyasa-puja day. After the Vyasa-puja ceremony, Prabhupada’s car didn’t show up to take him back to his house, which was a couple of miles through the hills. Somehow or other Krishna inspired me, like Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer, that this was my chance. I was a new sannyasi and I had a little yellow Volkswagen bug. I raced to my car, turned the ignition, came right in front of the stage where Prabhupada was, ran out, opened the door and said, “Srila Prabhupada, you can go now.” And I drove Prabhupada back in my little car. One of the big leaders was absolutely infuriated by this, but Prabhupada got in the car and off we went. I can’t imagine a more sublime experience on Prabhupada’s Vyasa-puja day than driving him alone through the forest and the hills. As we pulled in to Prabhupada’s house, that leader had somehow gotten there and he was cursing me in a way that Prabhupada couldn’t see. I thought, “Well, I got the mercy and Prabhupada didn’t have to wait.” We went into Prabhupada’s house and Prabhupada said, “Where is the lunch?” Then he learned that the devotees mistakenly thought it was already mahaprasadam. On Prabhupada’s birthday, his Vyasa-puja day, he had no lunch prasadam. Prabhupada’s servant immediately said, “I’ll go cook,” and he began to cook. But Prabhupada was totally undisturbed. Not to say that he would never become angry. He was as soft as a rose and as hard as a thunderbolt like Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Himself. But on that particular occasion, he was peaceful and happy. We talked for a while until his lunch was ready. A few months after I took sannyas, I was staying underneath Prabhupada’s quarters in Los Angeles in a small room without windows that was reserved for sannyasis. At that time, I was feeling discouraged and morose because I thought, “I’m not a very good devotee. How will I ever become a good devotee? How will I ever come to the proper standard of serving Prabhupada?” Every afternoon Prabhupada would come down the stairs and walk along the little walkway in the back of the building to go to his garden. The day that I was feeling morose, Prabhupada, without saying a word, came by my room, opened my door, and came in. I immediately offered obeisances. Prabhupada looked around and then continued on his way. I understood that he was calling me, so I immediately got up and ran behind him without saying a word. We went to the garden, his servant went to do something else, and I sat alone with Prabhupada. In a very sweet, gentle way, Prabhupada began to preach to me. What was unique about this preaching was that he never said Krishna or God, but he kept saying, “the Father.” He said, “What does a father want? He simply wants to see that you’re happy, but you also have to serve the father.” He preached for about fifteen minutes using the word “the Father.” He lifted my spirits. It was very compassionate. It was very kind preaching. It completely entered my heart and lifted me out of the doldrums, and I became again very enthusiastic. Of course, Prabhupada was also the father. I was practicing the principle of not trying to enjoy the guru, so I would stay in my room. And every afternoon for the next few days, on his way to the garden, Prabhupada would walk into my room, look around, then turn on his heel and walk out. And every day I would run behind him. Late 1972, when ISKCON Press was in Brooklyn, Prabhupada came there. After he’d been there a few days, the artists showed Prabhupada their new paintings for Prabhupada to approve or make suggestions or request corrections or whatever. Prabhupada looked at all the paintings, and suddenly he felt something very deep within himself and he asked for us to play his own bhajan tape of “Jiv Jago.” We brought in the tape player, he sat listening, and he was, in Vedic language, in samadhi. He closed his eyes and he was with Krishna in the spiritual world. It was so powerful that there was silence in the room. No one could say anything, no one could move and he didn’t open his eyes until the tape was over. Then Jadurani said that she had one more painting to show Prabhupada, and she brought the painting in. Prabhupada was still in this very deep internal mood. He looked at the painting and said, “It is very good.” Then he said, “Actually all of you are very good.” At this point, he became very humble and was speaking very seriously. In other words, at that point, due to his love for Krishna, he could no longer pretend to be the madhyama-adhikari who was preaching. He was exhibiting his real position as a paramahamsa. He looked at all of us and very seriously and humbly said, “Actually all of you are very good. And in your association, even I am good. Otherwise I am very bad.” Everyone was shocked and no one could say anything or hardly breathe. Then gradually one by one we offered our obeisances and left the room.

To view the entire unedited video go to Memories 29 - Hrdayananda Goswami, Tamal Krsna Goswami, Nischintya, Jahnava dasi

The full Prabhupada Memories Series can be viewed here and also at www.prabhupadamemories.com

Following Srila Prabhupada

Interview DVD 01

Hridayananda Goswami: That was really still very much the time of the radical politics, the hippie culture and so on. So we were all young, we were part of that culture, and so we had a real sense of fitting in with the general ambiance. The turnout was not massive, but it was good. But this was the first large scale Gaura Purnima Festival. What pleased Prabhupada exceedingly was that after the festival was over, days later the Berkeley police issued a statement praising the fact that we had made the city more peaceful. Because in those days there were all kinds of demonstrations and often they turned violent, there was tear gas, police, riot squads and so on. So the fact that a bunch of young people who were “far out” held some kind of demonstration festival right down Telegraph Avenue and it was peaceful and brought peace to others, the police highly praised this and Prabhupada adored that quote and he would quote it all over. As he traveled around the world, he would again and again quote that praise from the Berkeley police.

Interview DVD 04

Hridayananda Goswami: It was held in the late summer, of course, in August, and many nondevotees came, many young people, students. So just the scope of it, the dimension, and the number of devotees, number of nondevotees, it was a landmark event. Everyone that was there felt it to be so and even Prabhupada, that something new and greater was occurring. One time Prabhupada was sitting taking massage, and then right in front of Prabhupada these two little kittens were wrestling and they actually rolled right onto Prabhupada’s lap. So among the various zealous misconceptions that plagued us in our early days, one that we had is that animals were so contaminated that it’s horrible to even touch them. I was appalled that these two kittens…they were cute, but they just rolled right onto Prabhupada’s lap and I was thinking, “Oh, my God, an animal touched Prabhupada.” But to my surprise, Prabhupada just started petting them. And Prabhupada said two things. He said, “Look, even here there is love.” What I immediately understood from that was that our original love for Krishna is so strong that even in the body of an animal or a cat, it still manifests in some way. Then Prabhupada said, “If I put my head in your lap and you cut my throat, that is the greatest sin.” He said the greatest sin is that if someone trusts you and takes shelter of you and then you betray them and cause them harm. It can be parents toward a child, it can be a man protecting a woman, any situation where someone has sincerely trusted us and depends on us and then we betray them.

Interview DVD 07

Hridayananda Goswami: Prabhupada at a certain point indicated that he had to go relieve himself. And so they simply stopped the cart and he got down and began to walk into the forest, which, of course, in India that’s what anyone would do. So the devotees thought it was some kind of ceremony so they all started following him, dozens of devotees started marching over there. Prabhupada just laughed. He turned around and laughed and held his hand up and said, “No, you all stay here.” I actually had a premonition that something amazing is about to happen, and then it did. Prabhupada got up, began dancing, jumping up and down. And as he danced and held out his arms, he stretched out his arms toward the crowd, he began turning as he danced from side to side in stages. And we could see Prabhupada showering blessings on the people, it was practically visible. There are many pictures, there are many photographs, there are these extraordinarily ecstatic expressions on the faces of the devotees. It truly was a mystical spiritual experience. I personally am always more inclined toward philosophy and spiritual logic than just esoteric mystical things, but this was miraculous. It was truly miraculous. You could see Prabhupada showering blessings on the people.

Interview DVD 10

Hridayananda Goswami: Prabhupada had sent me to be GBC of Latin America in 1974, and in less than two years, by December of 1975, somehow things had gone well. We had printed books in Latin America, actually became the world sankirtan champion. And up to that time, no one had ever defeated Radha-Damodar. So it was a big upset, no one expected it. So then in ’76, I was there and Tamal Krishna Goswami was there. So we were walking with Prabhupada, and Prabhupada, he enjoyed this competition. So he was egging us on or just in a very playful, affectionate way. There I was with Tamal Krishna, we were on either side of Prabhupada. So Prabhupada said, “So, no one could defeat Radha-Damodar, but now Latin America has defeated you.” And then he was laughing, and he stopped and said, “I like this competition.” I remember we were walking on Venice Beach, and sometimes a wave suddenly comes up faster and higher than you expected. And one such wave came, we were all walking. Prabhupada had the best reflexes of anyone there, and he just scampered up the sand like a child and laughing just like a young boy. Another time we had arrived in Venice Beach, we had walked, and were back in the parking lot. So whenever Prabhupada got back to the parking lot, he would stamp his feet on the ground to get the sand off. So as we were stamping our feet, two big dogs came. They looked more like small horses. They were these huge dogs, and they started barking at us. Brahmananda was there and all these other big sannyasis, no one moved. So Prabhupada stepped forward with his cane and chased the dogs away, “Hut! Hut!” Abhaya Charanaravinda, fearless. I remember when Prabhupada called us all in emergency GBC meeting to Los Angeles because of the umbrella corporation. There was an attempt to centralize management, to make one corporation for all the ISKCON temples, an umbrella corporation. Jayatirtha was very enthusiastic to do this and Prabhupada was saying he didn’t want it, and Jayatirtha wasn’t really listening. So Prabhupada called on an emergency basis that all the GBC should come to L.A., and so we all came to L.A. I remember being in Prabhupada’s room and Prabhupada telling Jayatirtha, “We’re not going to do this,” and Jayatirtha was so upset he burst into tears and just ran out. And I remember then we had to actually preach to Ramesvara. Ramesvara was much more calm about it and he wasn’t that emotional about it, but he was just frankly saying, “I don’t understand why Prabhupada is doing this.” And, of course, it turned out Prabhupada was perfectly right because with all the legal cases we’ve had, if it had been one corporation it would have ruined everything. So Prabhupada was absolutely right. But Prabhupada, with an upward motion with his hands, he said, “This umbrella will go like this,” like an umbrella that suddenly flips up and stops being an umbrella.